|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Jun 30, 2011 10:23:40 GMT -5
It's one thing when a teacher forces every single student to pray, but it's another when the government prohibits them from praying at all. In fact, the Constitution says that Congress will neither establish a religion that all citizens must follow, nor prohibit the free exercise of any religion. Yet teachers --and in some places, students-- are not allowed to practice their religion by simply praying. My English IV teacher was not allowed to even play Christian music in her room during class, while my Government teacher (ironic) was free to play music with really inappropriate lyrics (not always, but sometimes) during class every Friday.
When I took a World History course, I learned about Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, even the religion of some people group in South Africa. You know what we learned about Christianity? The Roman Catholic Church, the Crusades, and the KKK. We did get a brief description of Jesus' life, but it was written as though Jesus were a mythical figure from some obscure folk legend. (You might think that they didn't teach it because it's just common knowledge, but there were kids in a town of less than 1000 people that did not even know what a Bible is. So yeah, it isn't common knowledge.)
I did some research of my own. Turns out, the founding fathers were definitely Christians, and they believed that the U.S. should be founded on Christian principles. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Payne (some random guy from the signing of the Declaration, I guess) were the least Christian of them all. They were almost deists -- in fact, Thomas Payne really was a deist. But just those three. Anyone else was probably unimportant. Funny thing is, when my class went over the founding fathers and their faith, those were the three people the textbook chose. Why? Textbooks are written by atheists. Which leads me to my last question: If teachers can shove atheism and evolution down students' throats year after year, why can't they at least teach about God a little?
Anyway, my rant is finished and I have said all I need to, although I am tempted to post some more information on the founding fathers. Ah well, just vote, people.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arcane on Jul 31, 2011 15:01:34 GMT -5
If teachers can shove atheism and evolution down students' throats year after year, why can't they at least teach about God a little? This is true, teachers should be able to teach about God slightly more in-depth, but if you really do think about it, when teachers go over the religious portion of a culture, they merely skim over it. We may learn the names and basic relationships between gods of a certain faith, but we never learn about them in-depth unless the religion is categorized under 'Mythology', which I despise seeing as how that religion is merely 'forgotten' and 'dead' but never disproven. Before I go on ranting about mythology, I should move on. On the other hand, if teachers did teach more about religion, it would be too in-depth and would be seen by some, probably atheist, government officials as going against the 1st Amendment and influencing our religious beliefs. All in all, teachers should not be allowed to have their students pray, even if it is merely an option for them and they aren't forced to do so. This is because the ones which do not choose to pray may become shunned by other children who are Christian or Jewish or Islam or whatever because they were brought up to believe in God (or whichever deity or deities they worship) and anyone who did otherwise was wrong. I have seen it happen. It is common. There's my two cents. Oh, and... what does evolution have to do with prayers? |
|
|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Jul 31, 2011 23:03:54 GMT -5
I don't mean to start an argument, but I would like to point out that only the Amish actually shun people, and they don't even attend such public schools. How students act toward one another has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not prayer is allowed in school. Kids get "shunned" based on their shoes every day -- should shoes be banned from schools? This is the Constitution we're talking about, and the Constitution doesn't care about the petty social lives of high-school students. It's a choice between freedom and social comfort; I, for one, choose the former.
But let's look at the converse sides of your two cents.
There are classmates of mine that were atheists, and they actually shunned the Christian teachers for being Christians. Likewise, I am a Christian, and I respectfully disagreed with the atheist teachers. The difference between these two cases, other than the level of respect, is this: The atheist-teachers are allowed to voice their beliefs, but the Christian teachers are not.
Is that fair?
The first amendment says this and nothing more: that Congress shall make no law establishing a mandatory religion and that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of any religion.
Congress made it illegal for anybody to pray publicly in school. It is also illegal for teachers to teach Christianity as a fact. That is prohibiting the free exercise of Christianity or any religion that involves prayer. It is simply unconstitutional.
And lastly, I bring up evolution because Darwinism is just as much a religion as Islam. Yet evolution gets touted as fact while Christianity, which is fact, has to put a sock in it.
Again, I do not mean to sound as though I'm attacking you personally. I'm not. It's just that the illegality of Christianity in government irks me to no end. I have done my research, and I have found that the biased, fallacious atrocities that fill our textbooks are not supported by real, hard facts. Yet this propaganda can legally be taught to our children while Christianity hardly gets a mention?
It's just unjust.
|
|
|
|
Post by Angelica on Aug 8, 2011 23:25:12 GMT -5
And lastly, I bring up evolution because Darwinism is just as much a religion as Islam. Yet evolution gets touted as fact while Christianity, which is fact, has to put a sock in it. I wasn't going to comment, but reading this, and I could not help but comment. Are you saying that evolution is not real, and Christianity is?? |
|
|
|
Post by Griffin2448 on Aug 8, 2011 23:41:21 GMT -5
I wasn't going to comment, but reading this, and I could not help but comment. Are you saying that evolution is not real, and Christianity is?? Yes. That is what he is saying. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Aug 9, 2011 0:48:36 GMT -5
And lastly, I bring up evolution because Darwinism is just as much a religion as Islam. Yet evolution gets touted as fact while Christianity, which is fact, has to put a sock in it. I wasn't going to comment, but reading this, and I could not help but comment. Are you saying that evolution is not real, and Christianity is?? Of course I am. Christianity is pure fact. Darwinism is pure propaganda. Isn't it obvious? ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Angelica on Aug 9, 2011 1:13:38 GMT -5
I wasn't going to comment, but reading this, and I could not help but comment. Are you saying that evolution is not real, and Christianity is?? Of course I am. Christianity is pure fact. Darwinism is pure propaganda. Isn't it obvious? ;D O.K, with that smiley, I can't take you seriously. However, I don't see how Christianity is fact, while evolution is not. I think evolution is real (there's to just to much prove), and Christianity is just a belief. |
|
|
|
Post by Griffin2448 on Aug 9, 2011 8:08:19 GMT -5
Lol
|
|
|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Aug 9, 2011 10:06:09 GMT -5
That's my big-grin-so-you-don't-think-I'm-being-rude smiley.  To be completely fair, evolution is one of those things that looks good at a glance, but when studied closely, has countless holes and improbabilities. Darwinism is just as much a belief as Christianity. The difference between the two is that Christianity is fact. Evolutionists would have everyone believe that Darwinism and Darwinism alone is supported by science and logical thinking, but you'd be surprised how well-founded Christianity actually is. The reason Christianity looks so silly (and evolution looks so appealing) is the simple fact that evolution has been shoved down our throats since we were children (assuming you're an American, of course). And this, I believe is an injustice. My point is that, while we might think evolution is a scientific law (it is not), it should not be the only belief that is allowed in school. Recently, the governor of Texas got in trouble for praying publicly at a Christian event, for precisely the same reason a teacher would get in trouble for praying in school. Yet the same governor could easily get away with telling students that they evolved from fish. If I were in his place, I'd be a bit cheesed off, and I'd likely get into further trouble after letting loose a few choice words. ` |
|
|
|
Post by Angelica on Aug 9, 2011 13:47:25 GMT -5
To be completely fair, evolution is one of those things that looks good at a glance, but when studied closely, has countless holes and improbabilities. Really?? Wanna give prove to that?? The difference between the two is that Christianity is fact. Evolutionists would have everyone believe that Darwinism and Darwinism alone is supported by science and logical thinking, but you'd be surprised how well-founded Christianity actually is. You keep saying Christianity is fact, but you give no prove to it. And don't give me "The bible is prove" thing. The reason Christianity looks so silly (and evolution looks so appealing) is the simple fact that evolution has been shoved down our throats since we were children (assuming you're an American, of course). Canadian. My point is that, while we might think evolution is a scientific law (it is not), it should not be the only belief that is allowed in school. There's Catholic school kids can go to. I think prays don't have any place in a public school. Recently, the governor of Texas got in trouble for praying publicly at a Christian event, for precisely the same reason a teacher would get in trouble for praying in school.  At a Christian event?? That's taking it a bit overboard. Yet the same governor could easily get away with telling students that they evolved from fish. Fish. LOL!! We (or at least I think) evolved from apes/monkeys/primates. |
|
|
|
Post by Griffin2448 on Aug 9, 2011 13:58:21 GMT -5
Lol. You're about to be educated.
|
|
|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Aug 9, 2011 14:10:35 GMT -5
Hey, cool, a Canadian. Do Canadian children get taught that dinosaurs lived before humans? 'Cause I know American children do. I think you mean "proof," not "prove." But when did this become about proof? If you want proof, ask for it, but don't act like it was expected all along. I have plenty of proof, but let's not get off-topic. This thread is about the legality of banning prayer in school. But, if you want to talk evolution, I have three large posts on my blog here on GEC that explain pretty much everything. You'll know by the titles which posts those are.  Better yet, I'll provide the links here, here, and here. Keep in mind, none of those posts are actually intended to insult evolutionists, but evolutionism. Oh, and I have gathered a bit more information since I wrote those, so they're not absolutely complete, but the points remain. Now, not all Christians are Catholic. I am Protestant and I do not much agree with some Catholic interpretations of parts of the Bible, so going to a Catholic school is not a perfect solution. And the governor more or less got in trouble for going to the Christian event in the first place. His public prayer only made it worse for him. And yeah, it's totally overboard. Yes, fish. While this is a bit off topic, I should tell you, scientists actually do say that we came from fish. They say we are related to monkeys, but not direct descendents. No, they're trying to tell us that lungfish developed feet and lungs and started walking around on land until they magically evolved into humans and apes and monkeys and what have you. And lastly, why shouldn't prayer be allowed in public school? |
|
|
|
Post by Angelica on Aug 9, 2011 14:24:22 GMT -5
Hey, cool, a Canadian. Do Canadian children get taught that dinosaurs lived before humans? 'Cause I know American children do. Yes. That's how it was. There's proof on it. I think you mean "proof," not "prove."  But when did this become about proof? If you want proof, ask for it, but don't act like it was expected all along. Sorry if it seemed like I was demanding proof, I wasn't. I was just asking for proof. Yes, fish. While this is a bit off topic, I should tell you, scientists actually do say that we came from fish. They say we are related to monkeys, but not direct descendents. No, they're trying to tell us that lungfish developed feet and lungs and started walking around on land until they magically evolved into humans and apes and monkeys and what have you. There's was something I wanted to say to this, but I don't know how to word it... And lastly, why shouldn't prayer be allowed in public school? I just have a hard time seeing people pray in public school, that's all. More opinion then fact. |
|
|
|
Post by Griffin2448 on Aug 9, 2011 14:36:26 GMT -5
You have a hard time seeing it because people are not aloud to do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by S.W.A.T.K. on Aug 9, 2011 14:40:00 GMT -5
Really? Catholics don't make up a majority of Christians in America, you know. There are lots of Protestant denominations. There's Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Pentecostal, Nondenominational, and that's just a few off the top of my head. Trust me, Catholics do not represent Christians as a whole. The first Christians, after all, weren't Catholic. But again, if you want proof, just visit the links I provided above. I'm more than willing to discuss evolution and creation with you. To list my proof briefly: -The evolution of prokaryotic cells to eukaryotic cells is, in every sense of the word, impossible. -The existence of living fossils such as coelacanths proves that organisms are not in a constant state of change, as is required by evolution. -Organs such as the liver would have to have evolved all at one time in order for humans to have them, and that's not possible, even by evolutionist-standards. -The Cambrian Explosion (the sudden appearance of every phyla of the Animal Kingdom in the fossil record), is inexplicable to Darwin, unless bacteria evolved into animals in less than a thousand years. -There has never been an actual missing link fossil found. -The Earth is, in fact, not billions of years old. At the most, it is 30,000 years old. EDIT: Prayer is just talking to God, and it is good for Christians to do. Saying prayer has no place in school is like saying God has no place in public school. But that's silly. He's God. It would make sense, then, that those who believe in God would have no problem praying in public school. When I was in high school, I did it all the time. |
|
